8 March 2023

To mark International Women’s Day 2023, NDY’s Sydney, Melbourne, Perth, Auckland and Wellington teams hosted a unique hybrid panel event on Thursday 2 March 2023, celebrating the official United Nations entity for gender equality and the empowerment of women theme of DigitALL: Innovation and technology for gender equality.

Our team took away a number of key points from the lively discussion:

Leadership

Role models are important for women in leadership, but they don’t need to be female. They could be an inspirational junior colleague or the male principal at your child’s school. If you connect with that person through shared values or interests, then let them inspire and influence you.

‘It’s important even if there may not be a female leader in your organization now, that you draw on your sponsors, your leaders and your role models within your organization,’ said Anna Broughton.

Be intentional in your leadership. Go out and attract diversity to your organisation. It will bring diversity of thinking and that will improve your organisational outcomes.

‘How do we make sure that when we’re looking at these roles in leadership, it’s truly diversity of thinking – not just from the gender someone shows up with but also how they approach problems. We know that will lead to better outcomes,’ said Karen Iles.

For many female leaders now there’s a need to demonstrate to their teams a way of working that enables all staff to bring their whole selves to work.

Anna Broughton positioned this as a need to live organisational values which support balance through action: ‘If you talk about having a culture where you want people to be authentic and you want them to bring their best selves to work, it’s important for the leaders to have those conversations. For example, I’m a mum of 2, so if I’m going to go to an assembly or I want to go and watch the kids at sports day, I make a song and dance about where I’m going when I walk out the door.

‘Because I want people to know that it’s not just lip service. That’s actually how we think and we want you to think as well. And, again, there’s bringing your whole self from a point of view if you have children, if you’re part of the LGBTQA+ community, or another one, or retirement planning. This isn’t something that gets talked about a lot. We’re also focusing on maternity or paternity plans and what they look like.’

Diversity and Inclusion

Having a diverse team making decisions, and challenging decisions within organisations, leads to better outcomes for the business and the communities it serves.

An example from Alison Mirams involved a change to safety protocols on site, stating that all visitors must wear long sleeved pants and long sleeved, collared shirts.

‘I asked, so who is this for? If your client is a female, are you going to tell her she can’t come to site? Yes was the reply. I said that’s not going to work. And they actually changed the policy.

‘Very simply, the more that you can have people around the table thinking about everyone that’s going to be affected by a decision, the better result you get for your business’.

Jo Miller commented, ‘McKinsey has shown that the companies that are the most diverse in every sense offer the most shareholder value and offer the most growth. Conversely, those that offer the least diversity actually track the least.

‘There are more men who are called Dave in New Zealand who are CEOs than there are women. In the UK there are more CEOs in the FTSE 250 who are called Michael or John than there are women or ethnic minorities. What all that means is that we miss out on talent. So I’m really clear in my role that it’s important for me to be intentional about bringing on talent to make sure that the organisation is the best that it can be.’

Karen Iles built on Jo’s thinking by adding, ‘It’s been proven time and time again that diversity doesn’t just equal profitability at the bottom line of a company, but it has a direct correlation to innovation. And I think that kind of thinking through our teams – thinking through diversity of thought and diversity of lived experience – is really critical to be able to bring the right solutions to our clients.’

Opportunity

While many women opt to be primary caregivers for family, there’s still a gap in the working world where part-time roles can be viewed as less impactful than full-time roles, or where part-time roles are not properly designed.

‘You’re given a full-time role description and you just do it in three days so you feel like you’re forever never getting through it all. You’re always playing catch up. I think it’d be interesting to have a look at how a project, office or company is set up to see if we can define roles in a more part-time way.

‘I think that would be an amazing equaliser and a better way to work.’ Commented Lisa Kelly.

Delivering balance for all staff – an ingredient for equality

When organisations focus on innovative ways to achieve work life balance for all their staff, the consequences are wide ranging. The change, which may be focused on a male workforce, can have massive positive ramifications for women. An example is Roberts Co and their push for construction site work to be undertaken during a 5-day week, rather than 6.

‘When we built Concord Hospital, we said to NSW Health Infrastructure, given the high suicides and high divorce rates we need to build a 5-day week. We did, and the findings were what you’d expect. Staff had better work life balance. They were happier, healthier, less depressed and less fatigued. They spent more time with the kids – taking them to Saturday sport – and playing sport themselves.

‘What I didn’t expect was the feedback from the partners – there were 16 next of kin in the survey. They said the 6-day working week in the construction industry perpetuates a gender stereotype – dad is the breadwinner and mum is the carer. Women can’t take on full-time employment because dad’s hours are so long and inconsistent and they need to do the caring. So the realization for me was that our working hours stop women from having a career.’

Watch the recording of the panel session

Extra questions for our panelists

Our in person and online audience was very engaged in the conversation – submitting so many questions during the session that our panel couldn’t address them all. Anna Broughton and Alison Mirams took some time to answer their favorite questions from the audience.

How do we reset expectations as to how much work needs to/can get done? I see so many women get paid for a 4-day week while working 50+ hours?

Firstly, this comes down to the leadership within the business to set the culture and expectations of their team.  In our organisation (as I’m sure in many others), we utilise a system that identifies what projects people are working on and how many hours are allocated to each project.  This shows a person’s utilisation.  It can be set to full-time, part-time, or anywhere in between.  The manager is responsible for allocating workload to someone’s available utilisation. My real-world advice is this is not an exact science, especially in the construction industry.  Demands change, so this needs to be regularly reviewed (at least monthly). Secondly, it comes down to boundaries; I’d like to say a company should be the one to set and enforce, so an employee doesn’t have to but being realistic, it needs to come from both sides; no one will manage your career better than you. Lastly, give away the guilt; full-time workers do not feel guilty that they are not working on Saturdays and Sundays as it’s their time and are not being paid.  There is no difference to someone working a four-day week.

How can men support women and advocate gender equality in our industry and wider communities?

I’m going to answer this one with respect to pay parity. Very simply, the next time salaries are being reviewed in your organisation, rather than just looking at a % increase on the current salary, I ask that you review each position type (and years of experience) as well.  By looking at % increase only, this continues to self-perpetuate the gender pay gap between males and females as the males have often commenced at a higher rate or some stage in the career (if not every review) negotiated a higher position. Although a review like this might lead to some females getting significant pay uplifts, don’t sweep this under the carpet; when no story or explanation is given, you leave it open for one to be created. Be honest about your company’s desire to live and breathe equity across the board and to continue to do so moving forward.

How do we get more women and girls into STEM today so that they are employed tomorrow? Once we’ve got them there, how do we retain them?

We need to get into schools at a young age and show the various career options within construction. There are so many career paths possible. We spoke to the Government last week about producing a video to put into all schools so that we are not reliant just on careers teachers to sell the dream. To retain women we need to make the industry more inclusive and more family friendly.  That means fixing the industry for men and women will benefit. The industry is just too hard. Covid’s push for flexibility has been a welcome change for the construction industry. Lets hope we don’t lose that!

What would you say is the main reason stopping women from going for a leadership role in their careers / or studying engineering?

I have seen many young women leave the industry when they are thinking of having a family. They look up and don’t see a career in construction as a mum as being possible. One of the inhibitors is the six day working week.  We lose women through their child bearing years which is when many men are moving into management positions.

How can men support women and advocate gender equality in our industry and wider communities?

Men need to call out the bad behaviour that keeps women down. “The standard you walk past is the standard you accept”. Men can be awesome sponsors to junior women – pulling them up in their careers. Men can also ensure women are treated equally – in terms of pay and job opportunities. If a man is on a job interview panel they should make sure there are women on the panel and that there are female CVs being considered. They should always ensure the quiet men and women in the room have had their voices heard.

What advice can you give young women who are early in their career in STEM?

How can we ensure that we are promoting diversity culturally, since the biggest hurdle to equity in the modern day seems to be our culture that centres men.

How important do you think flexible working and shorter working weeks is for enabling women to thrive in management roles? Is this becoming more common?

I think flexible working and 5 day working weeks are key to retaining women and for them to achieve leadership roles. Research has proven that women have assumed the lions share of the caring roles and that they have left full time employment to look after children. We need to get dads home and helping with caring to enable women to work in whatever capacity they choose.

In terms of attracting women and girls into our industry, how early and in which forums can we best achieve this. This needs to start in kindergarten when they are doing “readers”. We need to stop gender stereotyping at such an early age.

Have you had any staff push back about reduced overtime earnings with Roberts Co and the move to a 5 day week?

No, we have not.  Our staff are paid the same whether they do five days or six days as they are paid for output. Our EBA’d workforce may earn slightly less but no, they have not complained.  They are able to do the same amount of overtime if they work from 7-5pm every day, instead of 7-3pm Monday to Friday plus Saturday.  Whilst they might earn slightly less, their lives are richer as they have more time with their families and friends.

What is still going on that you consider unacceptable in your workplace?

As an industry comment – there are still construction sites without female toilets and their can still be sexually explicit graffiti on construction sites. Hard to believe it still happens in 2023!

How can women support other women at work always look out for other women?  

Bring them under your wing and grow and nuture them – don’t cut their legs off.  The belief that there is only one seat at the table is flawed. There are many seats at many tables.  If you are invited to an event and you are allowed to take someone with you – take a women. If there is a networking event, make sure they know about it. Make connections to other women wherever possible.

Dr Kirsten Ferguson says it well that we don’t need to put down the ladder to bring another women up, we need to throw down a fishing net and bring as many women up as we can, all at the same time.

How was a balanced achieved between safety and respecting the different gender fashions when deciding not to implement the long long policy?

The long / long policy would have mandated the minimum clothing everyone had to wear on site was long sleeves and long pants.  By challenging it, we agreed that a knee length skirt and three-quarter sleeves was acceptable.  Important to note, this is the minimum standard required.  If people would like to wear long / longs then that’s OK.  Hijabs for example are of course welcome.  The policy was aimed at reducing sun exposure, so the days of wearing short footy shorts has gone as there is too much sun exposure.

Do you think that gender equity will ever be achieved in the construction industry?

Yes, absolutely and we all must work towards achieving it.

What’s your favorite thing that you bring to your work? Do you think it’s a ‘woman thing’?

A male colleague is skeptical about the diversity, social justice movements, identity politics… for IWD is it good to let him express how he feels? Yes absolutely, listen to his concerns and have a conversation. Its not a win/lose equation.  More women does not mean less men. I would also remind people that for many many years, there was an imbalance and now we are working to achieve gender equality, but not at the expense of men.

Meet Our Panelists

Anna Broughton
Anna BroughtonDirector | Bridge 42
Anna is a Director of Bridge42, a national management consultancy firm specialising in project management, advisory and development management in the property space. Anna worked her way from Assistant Project Manager to the company’s board over her 18-year career. She has forged the path for females both in her company and the construction industry, being the first female Associate Director, Shareholder, State Manager and now Director at Bridge42.

Alison Mirams
Alison MiramsExecutive Chair | Roberts Co
Alison Mirams is the Executive Chair of boutique tier one construction company, Roberts Co, having also served as the founding Chief Executive Officer. The company was founded in January 2017 and within the first 5 years has 280 employees and a workbook of over $1.5 billion.

Having worked in the construction industry for 25 years, Alison is deeply passionate about addressing the systemic issues that exist in the construction industry and attracting and retaining more women in the industry.

Karen Iles
Karen IlesDirector and Principal Solicitor | Violet Co Legal & Consulting
Karen Iles is the Founder and Principal Solicitor of Violet Co Legal & Consulting. She is passionate about inclusion and diversity. Her focus on women and Indigenous people reflect 2 parts of her identity; a woman of Dharug Aboriginal descent.

Violet Co works with businesses and for-purpose organisations to assist them to leverage their core business to positively impact women and Indigenous peoples. This includes looking at a business holistically – how core business offerings, corporate social responsibility initiatives, human resources, supply chain, governance, policy and strategy interrelate. How to enable everyone in the business to connect with a social purpose in their day to day. How small tweaks, connections and relationships can make a difference.

Lisa Kelly
Lisa KellyMelbourne Office Director | NDY
Lisa is the Melbourne office director for NDY. Beginning her career with NDY as a mechanical engineer Lisa expanded her engineering expertise to include fire engineering and sustainability with a specific focus on existing commercial buildings.

Lisa leads a team of over 120 engineers, consultants and technical leaders in our Melbourne office to deliver sustainable projects for our clients.

Jo Miller
Jo MillerTumu Whakarae, Chief Executive Officer | Hutt City Council
Jo arrived in Aotearoa (New Zealand) in July 2019 to join Hutt City Council as Chief Executive.

A UK qualified lawyer by trade, Jo’s local government career spans 30 years.

At Hutt City Council, Jo is overseeing record external and internal investment, whilst realigning the Council to meet the challenges and opportunities of the next 30 years.

Introducing

Our MC

Renee Fourie
Renee FourieSenior Associate | NDY
Renee is an Associate Director and member of the NDY Perth executive team. An electrical engineer with extensive knowledge in building services commercial consulting and the industrial sector Renee has been responsible for managing the delivery of design for complex projects.

Her work includes all aspects of project management but her true strength lies in client project delivery, quality and team management. She is focused on excellence, innovation and value engineered solutions in line with client vision and value.

Opening comments

Stuart Fowler
Stuart FowlerPresident, Tetra Tech High Performance Buildings Group & CEO, NDY
As NDY’s Chief Executive Officer, Stuart maintains overall responsibility for the company.

Stuart is an expert in the field of building mechanical, electrical, and plumbing (MEP) services design with an extensive resume of successful project achievements. He is a skilled communicator, with strong commercial focus, and a demonstrable record of driving successful outcomes in multi-regional business settings.

In addition to leading NDY, in 2021 Stuart was promoted to President of Tetra Tech’s High Performance Buildings Division, with overall responsibility for Tetra Tech’s global high-end engineering design capability in the built environment. The High Performance Buildings Division includes NDY plus affiliates Hoare Lea in the United Kingdom, and Cosentini, Glumac and Tetra Tech’s Critical Buildings Infrastructure Unit in the United States.

Stuart has a genuine passion for NDY people, and for the relentless pursuit of service excellence to clients. He is proud to be part of the engineering profession, leading the delivery of projects and solutions that improve the lives of people, and communities, around the world.